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GAH! I joined FictionAlleyPark recently, which may have been am mistake. I'm starting to think I should have just stuck to mostly lurking in slash places and posting on LoonyLions. No, not really, because I mainly joined FAP to support my ships (SCUSA). The problem is I decided to venture out into other forums and some of the stuff I see just leaves me with an extreme need to vent.

Note: This post is friends-locked NOT because I'm ashamed of my opinions, but because I don't feel like dealing with the H/G shippers who would no doubt rush over here to defend their ship. Right now, I just don't feel like having people jumping in thinking they're going to change my mind.
But on the chance that I will unlock this one day - I would like any H/G shipper (or plain ol' Ginny fan) reading this to know that you are NOT going to change my mind on this - no more than I'm going to change your mind. Accept it and move on. Rowling was the only one who could have changed my mind and she screwed the pooch by writing H/G and Ginny herself so badly in HBP.

However, the H/G'ers are right about one thing - I was biased against H/G before it happened. See, I admit that. But my Anti-H/G (and Ginny-hate) has NOTHING to do with the fact that I ship HP/LV (or HP/LM, HP/NM, or HP/LL). You see, I accepted long ago that Rowling was probably going to do H/G, because at that point Ginny was the only other viable female (if as I suspected Rowling was planning Ron/Hermione).

Then Book Four come along and changed everything. Suddenly, Harry was crushing on an unknown female (Cho) and going on a date with another unknownish female (Parvati) and I cheered because it showed that there was a chance Rowling wouldn't go with H/G just because Ginny was there. But that wasn't the only reason I fell in love with Book Four. No, we also had Hermione going on a date with someone that was neither Harry nor Ron. Basically Book Four tossed everything into the air and I loved it!

Though admittedly I still thought Rowling would probably do Ron/Hermione in the end even though I felt Viktor/Hermione would be a better option. But I didn't hate R/Hm at that time, I just thought both Hermione and Ron weren't ideally suited for each other. Of course, I expected (if Rowling was indeed going that way) that Ron and Hermione would grow to be suited for each other. Though I admit that there was some things in Book Four made me wonder if Rowling might do a brief love triangle between H/R/H in Book Five before having Hermione settle with Ron. But (obviously) that proved not to be the case.

Book Five futher convinced me that H/G was NOT going to happen. Ginny was much more on screen and in Harry's face and still he managed not to notice her in that special boy/girl way. There are other things (such as thinking about how much she resembled Fred & George), but the big thing that sank H/G for me was that Harry had totally and completely forgotten all about one of the biggest experiences in whittle Ginny's life. Oh, yeah, there was some good romance foreshadowing. <- In case you missed it THAT was sarcasm.

Not only that, but Book Five suddenly saw more females being introduced, but let me point out that before I saw Luna (or even Parvati) as a potential love interest for Harry I was solidly against H/G. Yes, before Parvati and Luna I did have Harry pairings, but they were all slash and I always knew those slash pairings were about as likely to happen as Harry/Giant Squid, therefore I always accepted that in canon Harry would be paired with a female and before Book Four Ginny seemed the likely female.

For the record, right after reading OotP (and for several months) I felt Luna and Tonks were the biggest waste of characters ever. My OotP review (written right after reading) where I say this is still up on my website today. Admittedly I hated Tonks more than Luna, because Luna did seem (to me) to have a bit of purpose, but Tonks just seemed a reaction from Rowling about her lack of females in HP. And unless Rowling has a greater purpose other than pairing Tonks with Lupin in the last book, I will probably always feel Tonks was a big waste of space.

It wasn't until about a year after reading OotP the first time that I went back and read again. That time I come away thinking that Luna wasn't a big waste at all. I thought Rowling was cleverly sneaking in a LI (love interest) for Harry and I was interested, because Luna would be the one female that Harry (nor the reader) had come to know as a member of Harry's extended family. Yes, I think Harry sees Hermione as a sis and until Book Six (and even sometimes during Book Six) he saw Ginny as nothing more than Ron (his brothers) kid sis. So, yes, by the time I read Book Six I firmly expected to see Harry/Luna not Harry/Ginny.

However, while I've pretty much always thought H/G would be lame, I had admitted several times before HBP that there was a slight chance Rowling could make H/G work. Because you see before Books Five and Six I didn't hate Ginny, and admittedly in Book Five I didn't hate her so much as I was confused by the outright character change. Book Five Ginny was not the same Ginny she had been before and so I wanted to know why. And no, I never bought that crap about Book Five Ginny being the real Ginny, because we'd never seen shades of this Ginny before Book Five. Therefore, there had to be a reason why she was suddenly a different character, right? Again note that this opinion of Ginny has NOTHING to do with shipping.

And surprisingly my outright hatred of Ginny (Book Six) has more to do with Ginny than Harry/Ginny. Some people saw Ginny as funny here, but I saw her as a whiny bratty little bitch. However, this seemed like another character one eighty for Ginny, because even though she was more extreme (if you will) in Book Five, she still wasn't totally unpleasant. In Book Six Ginny was completely unpleasant to me.

Now granted I didn't like H/G and Ginny's shinny new characterization does play a large part in the reason why, it still isn't the sole reason I don't like H/G. Nor (again) is my dislike of H/G spawned from being on a losing ship. Rowling didn't write Harry/Luna - oh noes!!!! my life is overs!!! NOT!

Seriously, I know some believe if Rowling merely took out Ginny's name and replaced it with Luna I'd be happy and that is where you are wrong WronG WRONG! Maybe some H/L shippers would be happy about that, but I am not one of them. H/G (and Ginny) were badly written and if Luna went through the character one eighty that Ginny did and H/L was written just like H/G was - I'd not be thrilled, not even a teensy bit. Hell, I doubt I'd still be shipping H/L even in fanon, because H/G was just written that badly to me.

All you have to do is look at the break-up scene really. Ginny does NOT know Harry at all, proving that H/G did not have meaningful talks/chats during their sunny days. Otherwise Ginny would know that hunting Voldemort was not what made Harry happy. Oddly enough being with Ginny and living someone else's life is what made Harry happy. I.E. escaping his own life and destiny. But Ginny doesn't seem to understand that at all. Apparently, she is still clinging to the image of the boy who live and hasn't gotten to know Harry Potter at all.

Of course, Harry wasn't any better. "We could have had months, years..." Yeah, maybe if you hadn't ignored her for all those months/years. Why doesn't Ginny say that? WHY? I mean it was a perfect opening and would have been a great way to prove the break-up was a fleeting thing. Instead Ginny sits back and meekly lets it pass. Again here is a moment where Ginny and Harry could potentially connect on a deeper level and NOTHING.

Seriously the break-up scene shows it all. Harry's in love with being someone other than Harry Potter the boy who lived and Ginny is in love with the boy who lived. But Harry Potter is not in love with Ginny Weasley and Ginny Weasley is not in love with Harry Potter.

Therefore is it really any wonder that many of us have went looking for an outside reason to explain why Harry just suddenly notices Ginny? Apparently, but honestly the whole thing just seems very wonky to me and admittedly I will be disappointed if H/G get back together without actually getting to know each other, which if H/G was supposed to be the great love some say it is should have happened in HBP.

Now I'll end things with a little tidbit I found on FAP that was posted BEFORE H/G and HBP and shows that many of us knew if H/G happened there was a very good chance it would be lame. Though I doubt any of us really truly believed it would be as lame as it ended up being.

3) teh epiphany. In sixth year fics of both ships Harry , after having ignored romantically the two for years, suddenly realizes he was so in love with one of them from the start. If something like this will happen in canon, it will be very lame writing

The above was posted here by Messy long before HBP was released. And should be noted that it was posted to address the flaws of both H/G and H/Hm.

Yes, I know I dabble in H/Hm fanfic, I've said before (many times BEFORE Book Six) that I NEVER wanted H/Hm to be canon - I just happen to think if one had to happen H/Hm would work slightly better (for me) than H/G, because at least he hadn't completely ignored Hermione for years.

What I probably never added, was what Messy said so wonderfully. Just because I might like the ship better doesn't mean it would automatically be written better than H/G was. In fact now that the evidence is in, it is likely that if Rowling went with H/Hm it would not have been written any better in canon than H/G was.
Of course, I can forgive some bad writing in fanfic (which is why I do fanon ship H/Hm) like suddenly waking up and smelling the hottie (like Buffy advised Willow that Xander would do oh-so-long ago), even in fanfic I'm not so forgiving of everything, but some things can slide. However, when I pay twenty bucks a book I am less forgiving about ALL aspects.

Man these closing remarks are longer than I thought. Oh well, if you've read this far you probably won't mind.

Of course, I admit after that stooopid IoD I would support H/Hm being canon. Yes, at this point if Rowling wrote it - well, I would, of course be disappointed that it wasn't Harry/Luna, but I would be on my feet SQUEEING for the H/Hm shippers. But this canon support of H/Hm from me is ALL post-IoD.

Of course, now I have no doubt I would find H/Hm as lame and badly written as H/G was, but I'd still be happier about it now than I would have been, because I'd like to see certain IoD lovers eating the big bowl of crow. Not that I believe it'll happen, but it would be a measure of poetic justice.

But in the end, it's no wonder that Rowling had to turn to chest monsters and sunny days to sail H/G, is it? And certainly explains why so many people suspect things with H/G aren't entirely on the up and up, because all told this suddenly waking up and smelling the hottie isn't very realistic. Maybe it would work if they'd got together post-Hogwarts. You know, being out one day and coming across Ginny (or Hermione) shopping or whatever and suddenly realizing how much he cared about them, but it just doesn't work in the context of "high school" unless Ginny (or Hermione) grew one hell of a rack over the summer. And before Book Six there were many people making fun of this idea.
LOL this is so funny. I've never seen such mis-reading before in my life. Anyone who calls Ginny a bitch and badily written but calls Luna, the most overrated and stupid character in fiction, well written has clearly read something else. Actually, yes, any one who ships H/L has read something else - laughing at someone, calling them names, being embarssed by them is sure signs of NOT LOVE.

Sucks to have been so wrong.
Well, I'm glad I could amuse you. Honestly, I'm glad you brought this entry back to my attention, because honestly after Book Seven I pretty much wrote the Harry Potter series off entirely, so much so that I haven't really even talked about it in years.

And, I doubt you care, but I only called Ginny a bitch for Book Six, that is, in my opinion, the only book where she was a bitch. That's the book where I started to hate her, which didn't actually last long since I started to pity her when Book Seven came out.

Anyway, I am curious about one thing, though, where in the books did Harry laugh at Luna and call her names? I must have missed that. Or, hey, maybe we actually read different books, which is something I've long suspected, or rather I've long suspected that certain sections of HP fandom read different books from the other section.

As for being wrong - it doesn't suck, though I suspect being right may suck for you, since you're so into it that even after all this time you've come around to tell me how wrong I was.

But, honestly, I've never really been a canon shipper, so I really don't care that my ship (or ships) didn't become canon. *shrugs* To be honest, at the end of the day I'm actually glad Rowling didn't taint my pairing(s) with her issues.
I quite agree with you on this.

I know of others who thought that Luna had been brought in to be Harry's love interest. Given as how he had ignored the other primary candidates (Hermione, Ginny) and the intimacy of their final scene at the end of book 5, by the notice board, I think there was a good argument for that position. We expected Harry to grow into a relationship, and the H/L of OotP was a nice start. We didn't know that Rowling was going to throw Harry at Ginny with all the subtlety and romance of a brick in book 6 (just so she could keep to the schedule of her 'grand plan').

And surprisingly my outright hatred of Ginny (Book Six) has more to do with Ginny than Harry/Ginny.

Yes. The Ginny of book 6 is a horrible girl. Her abhorrent character is quite sufficient on its own to damn H/G (we want the best girl for Harry, right? Not a nasty girl like Ginny!).

And no, I never bought that crap about Book Five Ginny being the real Ginny, because we'd never seen shades of this Ginny before Book Five.

Well, the classic pro-H/G defence is that we only saw Ginny through Harry's eyes, and thus - since he ignored her until book 6 - we didn't see the 'real' Ginny, as she was 'pretending' to be someone else, a love-swoon girl on a crush, when around him. But that's a ridiculous argument in my opinion. First of all, we'd surely see signs of Ginny's pre-HBP awesomeness in indirect evidence - Harry noticing boys talking about or eyeing Ginny, her being talked about as the queen of Hogwarts, etc. After all, he took note of the twins' comments about her being - ready to laugh? - 'powerful'. So he would, therefore, notice other things favourable to Ginny. If they existed. Which they didn't (prior to her HBP makeover).

And secondy, how cowardly/silly/stupid is it to submerge one's character for 4 years around the hero on whom one is crushing? Until Hermione, the most intelligent girl in her year, gives one the amazing, simply incredible advice to 'be yourself'? Wow. After four years of being ignored ittle Ginny had never thought of that! Ginny is both an idiot and also a submissive coward!

but it just doesn't work in the context of "high school" unless Ginny (or Hermione) grew one hell of a rack over the summer.

Heh. It always makes me laugh to see mentions of Ginny's 'rack' emerging over the summer, but that's pretty much the case for little Ginny I dare say.
(we want the best girl for Harry, right? Not a nasty girl like Ginny!).

And that's what I'll always find sad, to be honest. Ginny didn't have to be this way. Rowling did not have to turn Ginny into Draco (with red hair) to have H/G work. Over the years I've read a few H/G fanfics (mostly before Book Five) and at least found a few that had Harry/Ginny done well, and certainly much better then Rowling herself managed.

So, I believe an H/G relationship could've worked with Ginny keeping her personality from the first four books. Now, as I said, I probably still wouldn't have shipped it, but I certainly wouldn't have hated it to the degree I did, nor would I have had my brief time of Ginny hate, cause if Rowling had done it better Ginny wouldn't have been so "bad" in Book Six.

I also agree that if the Ginny of the latter books had always been Ginny, Harry would've seen shades of that, even if it was nothing more then hearing other characters talking about her.
(And that if he'd always liked her he would've noticed her more all along.)

About stupid Ginny, I admit there's a part of me that's always wondered why Ginny didn't get more flack for trusting the Riddle diary, because according to her father she should've known better. But I guess even her father decided to let it go after Dumbledore patted her on the head and said "it's okay." But that adventure combined with her personality change(s) that started in Book Five (as Voldemort got stronger) had caused me to wonder (and hope) that Ginny still had some kind of connection to Voldemort, even if it was a passive connection.

And, at the end of the day, I think that's my biggest problem with the HP books (not the actual shipping at all, but the fact that) there was so much potential for greatness that somehow Rowling managed to dodge at every turn. That and the fact that she turned her hero into a zero by the end of the last book. Turns out Snape was right, Harry only got by because of the stronger/smarter people he had around him - I was so deeply disappointed.
And, at the end of the day, I think that's my biggest problem with the HP books (not the actual shipping at all, but the fact that) there was so much potential for greatness that somehow Rowling managed to dodge at every turn.

Yes, the last book was such a failure - Rowling proved so incapable of writing an 'end game' - even the shipping wars seem trivial in comparison.

Turns out Snape was right, Harry only got by because of the stronger/smarter people he had around him

Can you remind me as to where exactly Snape says that? Because it would be a great introductory quote for a DH/series review. In DH Harry's saved by Hermione, by Dobby, by his wand on automatic, by the Elder Wand gimmick ...
Sorry for taking two days to get back to you, I was going to look up the exact quote for you, but while I can find some of my Potter books, I can't find the one I need.

Anyway, Snape's comment is in Book Six during the Snape/Harry confrontation just after Dumbledore is killed.
If I'm recalling correctly, at any rate, but I am almost positive that's where it is.
Given your tip I went and had a look, but this was the closest quote I could get to Snape mocking Harry's lack of talent:

"No Unforgivable Curses from you, Potter!" he shouted over the rushing of the flames, Hagrid's yells, and the wild yelping of the trapped Fang. "You haven't got the nerve or the ability -"

It'll do for now. :-)
I was close, but not quite right. It's not a conversation between Snape and Harry, but at the beginning of Book Six when Snape is talking with Bellatrix and Narcissa. So, as I said close, but not quite.

Hardcover (Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince) Page 31:

"Of course, it became apparent to me very quickly that he (Harry) had no extraordinary talent at all. He has fought his way out of number of tight corners by a simple combination of sheer luck and more talented friends. He is mediocre to the last degree, though as obnoxious and self-satisfied as was his father before him."

The good news is that thanks to this I did manage to find my copies of the Potter books. *grin*
Wow, look at that. Snape was RIGHT!!!

Well, Harry wasn't that bad with regard to the 'obnoxious and self-satisfied' bit, but as to the rest ... spot on, Snape!

Thanks, that's a classic quote!
I'd agree with you about that last being wrong, if we were just talking Books 1 thru 5, but I think it fits like a glove for the Harry of Books 6 & 7.

What's sad (or funny, depending on your POV) is that I used to get annoyed when I read fanfics that had someone else actually saving the day.

No, I'm not talking about fanfics where Harry isn't the-boy-who-lived. What I'm talking about are fics where Harry is the-boy-who-lived but the fanfic writer would have someone else actually saving the day, usually (from what I remember) Snape, Hermione, and at least once Ron, while Harry (as the-boy-who-lived) in the fic was next to useless. Before Book Seven those stories would make me go "wrong, wrong, wrong!", but it turns out those authors were correct and I was not. *sigh*